A Controversial Banishment

On October 22, 2006, I banned two muds from the imud_gossip channel,
also known as "igossip" and "intergossip" and "ig".

These bans were due to violations of the router rules as posted here.

A vigorous debate on the subject began the following day.

The unedited (except for colorization) transcript of that debate follows.

[2006.10.23-20.27] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Cratylus, you are a twat.

[2006.10.23-20.27] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> yah?
[2006.10.23-20.27] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> oh i see, lemme read the scrollback
[2006.10.23-20.29] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> ya well, there's not that much to explain here. i try to reason with people through tells and emails, and if they still insist on being knuckleheads, there's only so much "nice guy" i've got
[2006.10.23-20.29] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> if that makes me a twat, then so be it
[2006.10.23-20.30] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> It does. (a) because you get involved in things often better ignored (ok, so it's Bush's policy, but does it have to be yours?)
[2006.10.23-20.30] Amun-Ra@Moraelinost <imud_gossip> test
[2006.10.23-20.30] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> (b) because of the lack of transparency in this administration. Handling matters privately is difficult and makes people edgy.
[2006.10.23-20.31] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> ah
[2006.10.23-20.31] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i thought handling things privately was the Right Thing To Do
[2006.10.23-20.31] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> are you sure you're not mad just cuz yer not in the loop?
[2006.10.23-20.31] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> (c) because you attempt to force a new policy on a network with established norms, which throws (a) and (b) into sharper relief.
[2006.10.23-20.32] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> hmm
[2006.10.23-20.32] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I don't care any more than the next person, but you should be concerned that people like me are unhappy. If everybody's out of the loop except you, then what sort of administration is this? Where is the community?
[2006.10.23-20.32] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> ok, i will address each of your points, if you're really serious
[2006.10.23-20.32] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I'm in no different position to the next person, and it worries me.
[2006.10.23-20.32] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I'm totally serious.
[2006.10.23-20.33] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I hope Warmonger can see this too.
[2006.10.23-20.33] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> there's a log page somewhere, i'll post the url to ic
[2006.10.23-20.34] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> ok the thing with a) i don't understand. if i've established a rule and it's broken, how does that not involve me?
[2006.10.23-20.34] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Are you running this network for the benefit of the community, or for your own personal glory?
[2006.10.23-20.34] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> If the former, you have to let the community establish its own norms. If the latter, carry on as you rae.
[2006.10.23-20.35] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i thought i had been clear in my motives. it would be pathetic indeed if i thought there was glory to be had here
[2006.10.23-20.36] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Your motive should be to establish a network for the benefit of the commnuity. This means that if someone wants to say or do something, and the majority want to hear it, it should be said or done. There is no thought police. If there are complaints, then well and good. Publish the fact that there has been a complaint.
[2006.10.23-20.37] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i see
[2006.10.23-20.37] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> By this process, the community establishes its own norms, and everybody is happy. This is not happening.
[2006.10.23-20.38] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i think you're mistaken
[2006.10.23-20.38] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And also, it removes you personally from the role of thought-police, and hence removes you from the line of fire, which you are currently putting yourself in.
[2006.10.23-20.38] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> gjs had the sorry reputation of being a miserable shithouse, and so it was
[2006.10.23-20.38] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> because it was a free fire zone
[2006.10.23-20.39] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> But it satisfied the norms of the community.
[2006.10.23-20.39] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> part of the reason i broke away in the first place was to avoid that situation
[2006.10.23-20.39] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> the status quo was resulting in fewer and fewer new people
[2006.10.23-20.40] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> this might be ok with you
[2006.10.23-20.40] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> but it's not ok with me
[2006.10.23-20.40] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> part of the point of yatmim is to avoid that crap
[2006.10.23-20.40] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Now the status quo is resulting in fewer and fewer old people. Your recent actions are destroying the community, and it's rapidly approaching the point of no recovery.
[2006.10.23-20.41] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> if satisfying the old people means they have to be fed new people, then starve
[2006.10.23-20.41] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Did you really have to destroy the I3 community just to run your newbie-help-net?
[2006.10.23-20.41] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> hang on
[2006.10.23-20.41] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> am i responsible for the death of gjs?
[2006.10.23-20.42] Llyr@Llyrland <imud_gossip> The "make it more approachable by making it clean" approach isn't really working well in my opinion based on this kind of thing. Really it makes me more apprehensive to discuss anything beyond technical matters, which doesn't do much to broaden my connection with the 'community'.
[2006.10.23-20.42] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I3 _was_ an entity beyond gjs. It's the community which is being destroyed, not any particular instance thereof.
[2006.10.23-20.42] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i dont understand. you're saying it's better to shut down yatmim than have rules on 6 channels?
[2006.10.23-20.43] Kenon@Autarchy <imud_gossip> It interests me that there is so little traffic on the other channels. Why? Is it hardcoded i3 implementations?
[2006.10.23-20.43] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I'm saying the I3 community, if it is to continue, requires a router which permits it to behave according to its established rules. Historically established rules. That could happen on yatmim or somewhere else. But it is inappropriate to try to reform an established community in your own image.
[2006.10.23-20.44] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> By putting yourself in this position, you are taking responsibility for it. Every mud admin who joined yatmim, including me, did it for the reason that we wanted I3 back, not that we care about yatmim or gjs. Now it's turning out that this isn't I3 as we believed it would be.
[2006.10.23-20.44] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> if i had known gjs would die, i would not have made ig a default channel on yatmim for ds muds. but i did. and it did die. i will not accept fault for that.
[2006.10.23-20.45] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i should mention
[2006.10.23-20.45] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> that the rules on yatmim are just about the same as gjs
[2006.10.23-20.45] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> except that on 6 channels, they get enforced
[2006.10.23-20.46] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i don't know what's so horrendous about having a set of rules to avoid hate speech and cannibalizing newbies
[2006.10.23-20.46] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i's not like i'm after people to be fucking polite
[2006.10.23-20.47] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> This is a personal crusade and should not be forced on the community. It's disgusting that you think that you personally can do that.
[2006.10.23-20.48] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> There isn't enough momentum in the community any more for anyone else to set up a new router either. The existing fragmentation has seen to that.
[2006.10.23-20.49] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> well, i think you are 100% absolutely wrong. but give me a while to think about what you've said.
[2006.10.23-20.50] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Nanvaent, OuterSpace, Discworld, Anarres II, Haven, ... we ARE the community. We ARE right.
[2006.10.23-20.50] Akiinobu@Akiinobu's Dream <imud_gossip> why not just take intergossip off the six list and make it non default for noobs? Its not like free speech is used now.
[2006.10.23-20.50] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> well
[2006.10.23-20.50] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> If you think about this, and you decide that you are right and everyone else is wrong, then you need to think again.
[2006.10.23-20.50] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> arren
[2006.10.23-20.51] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Because that's what it's boiling down to.
[2006.10.23-20.51] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> it is possible that disallowing hate speech is reasonable?
[2006.10.23-20.53] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> The point is not about any particular instance of the enforcement. It's about the fact that Cratylus is taking decisions in private, against the interests of the community.
[2006.10.23-20.54] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> It's about the fact that the "rules" do not reflect the desires or wishes of the community.
[2006.10.23-20.54] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And it's about the fact that this is a monologue because those parties who would support me have been banned in private, without consultation, by Cratylus.,
[2006.10.23-20.54] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> nobody ever asked for a role in the decision making process before
[2006.10.23-20.55] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Nobody should have to. You should be sensitive to the issues before putting yourself in the position.
[2006.10.23-20.55] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> so is the real beef that you dont know what happened?
[2006.10.23-20.56] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I don't know what happened, no consensus was established, and I disagree with the outcome.
[2006.10.23-20.56] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Not just on this matter, but on several previous matters.
[2006.10.23-20.57] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i think then that the problem is that your don't recognize the legitimacy of my authority ot admin the router
[2006.10.23-20.57] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Including the one involving me, where I responded "no" to you just to see whether you would take action in the absence of even a complaint, just because you personally thought the world ought to be arranged differently. And you very nearly did. I didn't care what you did, but the path of this administration was already clear.
[2006.10.23-20.57] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I recognise your legitimacy over the router, but not over the community or its norms and values.
[2006.10.23-20.58] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Do not confuse the two.
[2006.10.23-20.58] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> This is a bizarre argument.
[2006.10.23-20.59] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> Good evening everyone.
[2006.10.23-20.59] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> Crat set up a network, very similar to an existing network, because he didn't like the way the existing network was run. That's pretty much a universally recognized justification on the internet. 'if you don't like it, start your own'
[2006.10.23-21.00] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i'm honestly confused
[2006.10.23-21.00] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> And now he's meant to change the way this one runs to match the old one, because the old one imploded of its own accord?
[2006.10.23-21.00] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> the rules for this router were clear, but you're only complaining now
[2006.10.23-21.01] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And because he explicitly invited the old muds to join this new network, in such a way that it seemed he was rebuilding the I3 community.
[2006.10.23-21.01] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i worded them to be as clea as possible as to my intent
[2006.10.23-21.01] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> and every invitation was accompanied with an emphatic pointer to those rules
[2006.10.23-21.02] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> so i'm trying to understand a reason, other than sentiment, for this reaction
[2006.10.23-21.02] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I've held my tongue until now. I try to be patient and accomodating.
[2006.10.23-21.02] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> since it should be no surprise when a rule is enforced
[2006.10.23-21.02] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> but
[2006.10.23-21.02] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> you could have mentioned something
[2006.10.23-21.02] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> and then we might not have gotten here
[2006.10.23-21.02] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I'm mentioning it now.
[2006.10.23-21.03] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i guess you are
[2006.10.23-21.03] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I'm mentioning it now because it's not too late for the community.
[2006.10.23-21.03] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> so you propose that i revoke all rules from applying to ig
[2006.10.23-21.03] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> does that about cover it?
[2006.10.23-21.03] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I propose that the application of the rules match as closely as possible the application on gjs.
[2006.10.23-21.04] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Which wasn't particularly formal, but if enough people murmured, then consensus was assumed.
[2006.10.23-21.04] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And actions were so rare that it caused no trouble.
[2006.10.23-21.04] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> Why not just start up a new gjs router?
[2006.10.23-21.04] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> well
[2006.10.23-21.05] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> about a month or two ago, i foresaw something along these lines
[2006.10.23-21.05] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Bear in mind that you know nothing about me, and without giving too much away, I fall into several of the target categories of the "speech" on here, and I am not complaining.
[2006.10.23-21.05] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i figured eventually someone would push the envelope to see how far it would go, i would ban them, and then all hell would break loose
[2006.10.23-21.05] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> though i hadnt guessed it would be arren
[2006.10.23-21.05] Marajin@Andromeda <imud_gossip> mmm buggerit
[2006.10.23-21.05] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> because of this
[2006.10.23-21.05] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i reviewed what the point of the rules were
[2006.10.23-21.06] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> and how it might be avoided
[2006.10.23-21.06] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i went back to the ds distribution and modified it
[2006.10.23-21.06] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> so that the standard distro actually did not contain ig as a default channel
[2006.10.23-21.07] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> this, i felt, would help new people avoid problems should ig break loose
[2006.10.23-21.07] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> and i could ease up on the ig rules as time went on and current ds muds became older ds muds
[2006.10.23-21.08] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I think that time needs to be now.
[2006.10.23-21.08] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> so, i understand what you're saying, and we're more or less agreed on ig being traditionally a cesspool, and i don't really have the energy to stop it being so forever
[2006.10.23-21.08] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And I mean now, this minute.
[2006.10.23-21.08] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i think you can see i'm trying to be reasonable
[2006.10.23-21.08] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> maybe you could make an effort too
[2006.10.23-21.09] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I can. I'm very happy that you are considering these issues.
[2006.10.23-21.10] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> But I still think that the recent actions were a mistake, and need to be rectified.
[2006.10.23-21.11] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> the admins of the muds in question were emailed. the email said, basically, "i pulled you from the channel temporarily. email me if you want to be back on, and i will make it so"
[2006.10.23-21.11] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i have not received that email
[2006.10.23-21.12] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And nor will you until the timezones are right, and people have spare time. That doesn't make your actions any less the mistake, but does permit you to stand upon your pridce.
[2006.10.23-21.13] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> for me to be "standing on my pride" would mean that i don't think there is merit to my position. that is not the case.
[2006.10.23-21.13] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Then you will reverse it immediately, since it is without merit.
[2006.10.23-21.14] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i think you are mistaken
[2006.10.23-21.14] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> I'm curious as to what instigated this.
[2006.10.23-21.14] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> And the natural evolution will bring back the community social norms on I3, and the next release of dead souls will move people off igossip by default, and there will be a little uncomfortable time for both sides in the middle, but neither side will be outraged by Cratylus's personal actions, and everyone will look forward to a better future.
[2006.10.23-21.14] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> not that it's necessarily any of my business, but since we are being treated to the argument... :)
[2006.10.23-21.15] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> someone on some mud is in the habit of making comments that violate the rules of the router, and they were repeated warned, and kept doing it, so their mud was temporarily blocked from 1 channel
[2006.10.23-21.16] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> that's about it
[2006.10.23-21.16] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> given that the rules were spelled out, and not unreasonable, i think you can see why i might be a little surprised at this reaction
[2006.10.23-21.16] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> There should be a consensus in the community for such an action. There was not. Neither from the existing community, nor from the new dead-souls crowd.
[2006.10.23-21.17] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i figured someone would fly off the handle
[2006.10.23-21.17] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> just not arren
[2006.10.23-21.17] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Why not me?
[2006.10.23-21.17] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> you seem pretty level headed. i would have expected some sort of objection prior
[2006.10.23-21.18] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Perhaps I am simply more patient than you gave me credit for. I am now objecting.
[2006.10.23-21.19] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I think I'm making a clear argument. I think I am making an argument which will gain consensus. I am not going to make any claims about consensus, I will let people state their own support or opposition.
[2006.10.23-21.19] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> i think that what will happen is that the admins will reply and i will let them back on, that's what i think will happen
[2006.10.23-21.19] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> hate
[2006.10.23-21.20] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I fully acknowledge Cratylus's hegemony over yatmim, but I do not acknowledge his authority over the I3 community.
[2006.10.23-21.20] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> go start a router.
[2006.10.23-21.20] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> is there another fascism debate?
[2006.10.23-21.20] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> apparently
[2006.10.23-21.20] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> I don't want a router. I don't claim authority over I3 either.
[2006.10.23-21.20] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> I just came here to ask for some advice on preparing my pasta
[2006.10.23-21.21] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> water
[2006.10.23-21.21] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> heat it up
[2006.10.23-21.21] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> drop pasta in
[2006.10.23-21.21] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> As I don't want a fucking red sauce, I figured i'd just cook some veggies in oil to serve over the pasta
[2006.10.23-21.21] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> But I'd like some meat with it
[2006.10.23-21.21] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> So I acquired some italian sausage.
[2006.10.23-21.21] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> and I was wondering the best way to prepare it.  Cook the meat with the veggies?  cook the meat seperately?
[2006.10.23-21.22] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> is it soy?
[2006.10.23-21.23] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> what veggies? and what sausage? chorizo?
[2006.10.23-21.23] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> wop, he said.
[2006.10.23-21.23] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Is that the right word?
[2006.10.23-21.23] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> italian sausage
[2006.10.23-21.23] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> with tomatos, onions, bell peppers, and garlic
[2006.10.23-21.25] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> Arren, you were invited here. If this router hadn't been created, there would be no I3 community left, since apparently it's nearly impossible to start up a router. This is just a bizarre argument.
[2006.10.23-21.25] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> onions and garlic first, then add the peppers, next the sausage, finally the tomatoes, the juice from the sausage will then be soaked up by the veggies and spread the flavour
[2006.10.23-21.25] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> cook the sausage?
[2006.10.23-21.25] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> or cook it in the pan with the onion and garlic
[2006.10.23-21.25] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> you prolly wouldn't want it raw
[2006.10.23-21.25] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> precook even
[2006.10.23-21.25] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> nope, into the pan with the veggies
[2006.10.23-21.25] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> I'm debating on using links or crumbled sausage
[2006.10.23-21.26] Akiinobu@Akiinobu's Dream <imud_gossip> links cut up are better
[2006.10.23-21.26] Zaphod@Dead Souls Demo <imud_gossip> totally
[2006.10.23-21.26] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> yep
[2006.10.23-21.26] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> how do you cut up a link correctly without cooking it first?
[2006.10.23-21.26] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> to make a loose metaphor, it's as if I were a player on a mud where anarchy ruled, and then one day the mud closed, and I joined another mud because it happened to run on the same codebase, and got upset because the community there had different rules.
[2006.10.23-21.27] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> I respect Crat for starting this router and attempting to bring order to it
[2006.10.23-21.27] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> with a very sharp knife
[2006.10.23-21.27] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> but really, he's nothing but a very stupid fucking <insert racial slur here>.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Hellmonger, Wikipedia has a really useful list.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> In fact, I bet he <insert obscene sex act> with his <insert family member> or his <pet>.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> a list of what?
[2006.10.23-21.28] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Racial slurs.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> Shocking accusations.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> but don't cook it first, that will destroy the flavour, if you have to, put it in the pan first for a couple of minutes, just to seal it from the outside, then cut it
[2006.10.23-21.28] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> racial slur database is good.
[2006.10.23-21.28] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> halcyon.  Were you halcyon who knew vidor or iizuka?
[2006.10.23-21.28] Arren@Anarres II <imud_gossip> Oh wow, history!
[2006.10.23-21.29] Halcyon@Dracul's Castle <imud_gossip> No... I'm pretty much a newbie.
[2006.10.23-21.29] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> oh yeah, sun dried tomatos.  in with the regular tomatos, or in with the onions and garlic?
[2006.10.23-21.30] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> i'd put the sun dried in last
[2006.10.23-21.32] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> Sounds good.
[2006.10.23-21.33] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> thanks!
[2006.10.23-21.33] Wintermute@NeuromancerMUD <imud_gossip> enjoy!
[2006.10.23-21.33] Akiinobu@Akiinobu's Dream <imud_gossip> add some fresh basil and it will be perfect
[2006.10.23-21.33] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> i don't have fresh basil.
[2006.10.23-21.33] Hellmonger@Trilogy <imud_gossip> i probably have dry basil